Leaving a Legacy of Faith

00:00 - Speaker 1 My name is Laurel Nicholson. I'm the creator and founder of the Death and Resurrection Doula Training Program. As I said, it's the only Christian training program in the world. It is bringing together an amazing mix of people who are interested. Either they join the training or they just want to be a part of the conversation. 00:21 I think that joining the International Fellowship Cafe any Monday of you know, we're here every Monday is a wonderful way to get connected. It may lead to training, it may lead to just new friends that are willing to talk about death, willing to talk about resurrection. And we're in a period of time in history that actually talking about resurrection may be something we're not quite familiar with. We're like I know there's a resurrection from the dead, but I don't really know the details. I don't know exactly what the New Testament says. 00:58 So through this International Fellowship Cafe we talk about these things, but today we're here to talk about legacy projects and that is not disconnected from resurrection, because our ultimate hope is that we will be raised again. And we have that hope because Christ was raised again and that shapes how we live today. So our legacies can reflect that you don't have to be at the end of your life, to start a legacy project. So we're going to talk about all these things, and it's a wonderful time to talk about it because Easter is next weekend. So, anyway, why don't I give you a few minutes, Jill, just to introduce yourself and maybe, while you're introducing yourself, because I know a little bit about you talk about the word doula, because you have some history through your family of having a birth doula, and just kind of talk about your familiarity with the word, because I know it's a new word for a lot of people. Or they say I know what a doula is. It has to do with birth. 02:08 - Speaker 2 Great. Yeah, my name is Jill Yuen. I am a certified death and resurrection doula as of December Went through Laurel's project or through her program Love it. When I was looking for a doula program, when I found out about an end-of-life doula and it resonated with me, I just kept putting it off because the only programs I found were secular and I just did not. I felt so strongly it was a calling from God that I just couldn't reconcile doing a secular program. And then one last time I looked out there and found Laurel and joined the program and it was excellent, excellent, excellent. I loved it. I loved everything I learned. I love still continuing on and learning from the collaboration and from everything else. 02:51 So, yeah, it is true, my understanding of a doula. I did not know what a doula was until my fourth child had three children with. You know, they had been induced, I had epidurals, all this stuff. And then there was like a five-year break in between my third child and my fourth, where I went no, I'm going to do everything natural. And that's where I found out about doulas. I homeschooled all of my children and one of the moms in our group had become a birth doula and that's when I found out what a doula was, that it's a servant and, in that regard, I just knew with me that that would facilitate a peaceful death, that it would be something that would be something that the patient had some input in and it would be, as a doula, someone working with that person to have death and life look like they want it to. 04:03 - Speaker 1 Amazing, absolutely amazing. I hope soon to have a podcast topic where we talk a bit more about the connection between doula services, servanthood, birth and death. There's a lot of connection between them and, believe it or not, one thing I've learned over the past few months, as I've taken a deep dive into a birth doula course I am training in a Christian birth doula course is the secular side of it is very new age, just like the death side, like the death side, and to even call yourself full spectrum, I do birth, I do death that may be secular people. They hear that they're like oh, you do abortion. You know, you do it. All this. You know there's rituals and and certainly not so. So Christian end of life doulas are not going to participate in the new age practices that people may get nervous about if they've heard about it in the birth side, if they've heard about it in the death side. So I want to talk a little bit more about that. 05:16 You know, looking into training programs, because for you, when you hear you heard God's call and you say I have to, I got to do this, this is what God's called me to, and it wasn't halfway through my training program that you thought, wow, legacy projects. Never thought about that, you were already thinking about it. So what is it that resonated with you early on? Because you and I want to say this, because people may say no way am I called to be a doula. I work in the financial industries. Well, you're in real estate. 05:50 You live in beautiful Colorado. You know how can God place a call on our heart where maybe it doesn't have anything to do with. You know what we do is our. You know occupation, and then you have legacy projects, so maybe dive into that a little bit for me. 06:06 - Speaker 2 Sure, I think it actually ties in more to my homeschooling life more than anything. Last year was the first year we didn't homeschool in 24 years. We had graduated our youngest and so that part of my life was done and coming into that when my boys were the last two that we were homeschooling and they were getting independent, and in high school we trained them to start taking control of their scheduling, of their schooling. So you're only checking in with them once a month. So it really is like there was this kind of opening of my schedule and my time, even though real estate takes a bit of that. But I kept praying and thinking are you done with me? Am I? You know I'm only in my 50s? I feel like what's the next step? And all the places I plugged into ministry before were kind of ebbing. You know, they were kind of going away and we had changed churches. So it was very different and I just did a lot of praying and I, every time I was in the word, every time I was praying, I just felt the word legacy on my heart and I thought, oh, okay, yeah, I know this. So I'll continue to mentor these homeschooling moms, young mamas, and I kind of felt kind of the Holy Spirit going. Sure, okay, yeah, that's good, that's a good legacy. That's not what I'm talking about, but sure that's not bad. You keep doing that and I'm like, well, what a legacy. And it would just that word would just pop out every time I would read, or people pray with me, and that word would come out and I think, and I think what I don't? Okay, it just wasn't, you know, seizing me and then my dad passed away and I did a lot of things that an end-of-life doula would do during that passing and I didn't know that's what that was. 07:56 And then, you know, we lost my godson and then my mom was diagnosed and I kept thinking I'd be a really good hospice nurse if I didn't have to do all that nurse-y stuff. And so I just Googled hospice, adjacent ministry and the first thing that came up in all capitals said legacy. And I was like what? And right after it it said death doula. And I'm like what's a death doula? 08:22 And as soon as I read it, like those two terms together came in there. You know, when the Lord has put a calling on your heart, it just it grabs you and I knew that's what it was. I knew that's what the Lord, obviously the Lord wasn't going to lay on my heart. You know, in a couple of years, everybody you know is going to die and it's going to be this new calling, because I'd be like, wait, yeah. So, but it did, definitely, without a doubt, 100% I knew it, I already felt it was confirmed in the word, through the spirit and all of that and, yeah, that's kind of how I got it. So then, of course, when I read that they did legacy projects, I'm like, oh, I have a lot of creative juices and believe in in. Already our family is active in leaving legacy to each other. My parents have been active in leaving legacy to their descendants. So, um it, that was already happening. So all of that came together and I went. That's me. 09:19 - Speaker 1 I love that Absolutely. So we're going to not define, but we're going to talk a little bit more. What is a legacy project? Because a lot of people may not know. And same thing when I trained to be an end of life doula early, you know, when I first got into it, I quickly learned that legacy projects are a popular reason why someone would hire an end-of-life doula. So what is a legacy project? And when I think of a legacy project, I just think of something tangible that a person at the end of their life maybe they've not started it yet, so it's okay. You start something to leave for those who are going to survive you at your death. 10:09 And so my first doula job I ever had was a young mom with a nine-year-old daughter and I was hired to do a legacy project. So you know, very, very exciting to do a legacy project. So, you know, very, very exciting. You know it can be challenging when you don't know much about the person's story, but the instructions were simple we want you to rig videos and turn it into something digital that can be preserved forever. So when the daughter is growing up, she's got these videos from her mother and and that what? 10:48 What I was supposed to help create were, like, you know, milestones like, okay, let's create a video for this and for this and for this, you know, and so it went smoothly. I don't have tons of, you know, technical education. I mean, I had an old iPad that I recorded. You know her with her videos and I was able to find a website, so it was like pretty basic, but it still, you know, fit exactly what they wanted. So I share that to say that people can create legacy projects. So why don't you add on Jill to what I'm saying and maybe like what you think of when, when you think of a legacy project, or you know how you would explain it, sure? 11:30 - Speaker 2 I will start by saying I think video is such a great thing to either be a standalone legacy project or enhance any other legacy project I was looking at. Is it Everhold? Have you heard of it? Oh? 11:43 - Speaker 1 Ever. Yeah, what is that Everhold? We'll look it up and we'll find the link. 11:48 - Speaker 2 It's really great because it actually it will categorize so you can make birthday cards for the future or wedding you know, like when somebody is getting married, wishes for them and things like that. So it even helps the person who the patient themselves, to be able to say yes, this is something I want to leave, but I don't know where to start, and it kind of helps the doula help organize that too. So I think anytime we can look back and see I look at my grandfather, I love my grandfather so much, but I have tons, we have tons of home movies, but I don't hear his voice anymore. It's just what I remember in my head. I think that's a great thing Ever loved. That's just what I remember in my head. I think that's a great thing Ever loved. That's it? I don't think so. The one I'm thinking of is EVA. I'll look it up. It's Everheld or Everhold, I think, is what it's called. 12:36 - Speaker 1 Just for the audience. There are a lot of online. If you look up legacy projects, the internet, it will pump out lots of ideas from park benches to. You know, when we think of legacy, we may think of leaving, you know, $100,000 to a church, right, but we're not talking about that today. We're talking about actual and that's a project in itself, but we're talking, you know, creating a park bench. Those are projects and stuff, but we're talking about something a little bit different today. Just to clarify that on legacy. 13:10 - Speaker 2 Sure, yeah. So for me I like that idea of use the term patient the person who is, you know, who is coming to the end of their life, that they want that is important to them. So I think that the best place to start legacy projects is way before you're at the end of your life. But because it's biblical, you know, we think about that. The Lord has called us from the very beginning to memorialize the things he's done, the things he's done in our life. We talked about Gilgal, when Joshua was bringing the children of Israel across the Jordan. When they got across and the Lord released the waters back. Before he did that, he said I want you to take stones and I want you to build these altars in the riverbed and then in the place of Gilgal, because someday I want your children's children'sars in the riverbed and then in the place of Gilgal, because someday I want your children's children's children to say what are those stones about? And then you will tell about the goodness of the Lord to coming generation after generation after generation. So it's good to have something tangible where you go. What is that about? What are these things? Because that's exactly what the Lord tells us to do and you know, we think of all the feasts and all the tributes, those things that God called his people to do is to remember the goodness of the Lord, and definitely that's how I look at legacy projects, for the Christian is our faith is the most important part. So how can we frame that and how can we move from that point to ask the person who's coming to the end of their life what is important for your people to know, and I think that's really important? 14:51 I have a friend right now whose mom has COPD and she was saying you know, there's things I forget about my childhood and so I want to talk to my mom. So she tells me all that stuff before she passes, and I said that's great. You might also want to ask her what she wants to tell you before she passes. It might not be the same thing. You want information and she wants to convey legacy, and that's two different things sometimes. So for me and my family, my faith yes, ever held, ever held, I think so for me, I wanted to give things that conveyed my faith. 15:27 So one of the things that I do is I have eight grandchildren. When we're coming, I have five kids. I have bought Bibles for each one of them, which sounds like a lot of stuff. It is, but I only do something in their Bible each year on their birthday and probably like when they get married and things like that. But you can see like there's a whatever. I'm praying for them that year and I write a letter on their birthday and I kind of illustrate it there. 15:57 And because I want them to know they were prayed for, I want them to know specific things. I felt like the Lord laid on my heart for them, how the Word is living and active in my life, for them and in their life. And I just think, if I have my grandmother's Bible and she only has a couple of notes in it, but those notes mean everything to me because it gave me insight to my grandmother how much more if my grandmother had said these were the prayers I was praying for you all along and I'm this faithful woman of God and I was seeking God on your behalf. So that was one thing. Also, the Ark of the Testimony is the Ark of the Covenant and in that is the testimony to God. It has Aaron's budded branch, has a jar of manna, has the Ten Commandments. And so my thought was, as people are coming to the end of their life. 16:51 If they don't have the years to do the Bibles, like I have, they can shorten that and just write as they think of things, or in one Bible for all the people in their family, or something along those lines, or making their own ark of testimony and with that, like I, for that there's like really pretty boxes you can get at different places and then you can ask them, what if there are three things that you could leave that give your testimony to your family, that legacy to leave, what would they be? And so in mine I have a guest book from when my it starts in the 1940s, like 41, I think that everybody signed to my grandparents. Then it went to my parents. Now it's mine. I have, like my grandfather's, all of his medals from serving in the war, both my grandfather's. I have my dad's dog tags, because hospitality was something that was important in my family. 17:45 Service is something that's important in my family. And I also have a mine and my husband's wedding invitation, both to our wedding. And then my husband is Chinese, so his mother threw a big Chinese banquet. Both our families, very faithful marriages there. So that's just to carry on to that. So just coming to a point where you can ask the person what is important and what do you want to pass on, I also made a scrapbook a long time ago with my grandmother when we started to see that her she was losing capacity and she had all these pictures and she was such a storyteller and we said, tell us the stories that go with these pictures. And I was just furiously writing and sticking notes on that and then I put together a scrapbook, so my grandparents' whole story is in that and we kind of pass it around, that's wonderful. 18:33 - Speaker 1 Well, a couple of months ago I said you know the internet is full of ideas it around. That's wonderful. Well, a couple of minutes ago I said the internet is full of ideas and resources and so it's going to be relatively easy to get involved in something like a legacy project because you have the assistance of technology. But not every legacy project needs to be a technology backed legacy project like what you're saying. You know, with these Bibles, I mean, that's something that anybody can do. I love the idea of a box. And and one wonderful thing about legacy projects if you start it, you know early. 19:12 or even if you start it, you know when someone's you know, towards the end of their life, perhaps they have a terminal illness, perhaps they are in hospice care. It does something very important it makes us talk. It makes us talk about the fact that life is coming to an end and and so, even if you know a legacy project is small, you know you want to start one that that you can finish right and you have the resources. You know a legacy project is small, you know you want to start one that you can finish right and you have the resources. You know I share this in the training program. You know, don't start something that's unaffordable and can't be finished and that everybody's disappointed. You know, even if it's something very small, that is perfect, that's fine, and make sure that you know there's time to finish it. You know what are your resources. You know the financial resources there for it is time there, you know for it. And that may not just mean the person how much you know how many days they have left but family members who want to get involved. You know can they give the adequate time to it? 20:15 Another lovely doula that's been through the training program and she's part of the Collaboration Association. She has a real knack for upcycling, finding items that could be made into something, and I've had a couple of little conversations about it and you know what her goals are. You know for this with her business to help. You know families. You know, use a loved one's items and create it into something new, and that could be like a really great thing to do after someone's died. 20:48 You know what do you do with someone's things. You know, particularly maybe if it was a you know husband and wife and then both of them have now died. And you know, particularly, maybe if it was a you know husband and wife and then both of them have now died and you know the kids are sorting through their things. You know getting getting creative doesn't have to start before someone dies. It can, you know legacy project can, can certainly be be started and finished at any time. Well, so let me ask you quickly and I do realize like half the time I spell Gilgal right and half the time. 21:22 I don't, so I need to clarify. Is it G-I-L-G-A-L? Yes, Okay, and is it remind me in the book of Joshua, is this the verse that you're thinking of? Do you recall the scripture reference off the top? 21:39 - Speaker 2 of your head. Wait, that would have been really great for me to look up right my Bible. But yeah, it's after they cross the Jordan and God gives direction to them. So it's in that first part of crossing over the Jordan when God drives up the Jordan on both sides and lets them cross over, and, yeah, that's when that's okay. 21:59 - Speaker 1 So we're all going to go look in Joshua this afternoon. 22:03 - Speaker 2 Joshua sets his up, which is not in the riverbed, it's at the point of Gilgal. 22:09 - Speaker 1 Okay, gilgal, and Gilgal is the place that they're crossing. Is that right? Okay, it's the other side. The other side Is my understanding. Yes, okay. Well, we all have homework, so we can go. We can go do, do a little bit more more research. 22:26 So let's talk about okay, well, this is a summary that you heard the Lord call you to this and you were faithful. Joshua 10, 19,. Michelle is our girl. You can see that our training program is fun. 22:45 Collaboration is really, really important and, as members of the body of Christ, we build one another, and this is just a little window, build one another, and this is just, you know, a little window into that. 22:58 So you heard the call and you answered it, and there was even, you know, a little bit of space in there where you're like, well, shoot, like I feel called to this, but I don't know why I'm going to. 23:10 You know, follow this, because I am not interested in talking about death if it's, you know, not with a Christian perspective, and you know both of these are. You know I wanted to say, you know I do believe that you know you can get amazing things out of one of the training programs, and you know I did, but one of the things I'm very happy about is that you stuck in there and you researched and you were able to do your training with a group of people who, you know, have the same goal, which is to minister through death, minister with the hope of resurrection. So I love all that you've done. And now you've got this. You know amazing, you know list of ideas, and so how do you plan or what are you working on to, like, get into your community and let people know what you do? Have you, have you been thinking about that at all? 24:08 - Speaker 2 Yeah, I think I thought about that before I even started training and it really was linked to the legacy projects for me. I've done workshops of all different kinds of things when, again when I was in homeschooling I feel like sometimes that all that season of homeschooling was kind of equipping me for how to think about coming into this and I definitely think God used that. 24:32 But, yeah, I, we so in kind of my whole life in real estate. We have some really good relationships with estate attorneys. We do a lot of business with them. We help their clients sell inherited properties and things like that. So that was a really great. That is a very great resource for me and me to them. That's something that they can offer when they're putting together estates. Do you know about this? And if you want to talk more about it, this is a person that you can speak to. We have a good relationship with her. 25:03 Also, I am in the process of getting scheduled for workshops, for because the best time to start leaving a legacy as believers, we're called to leave a legacy right Period. There are things that the Lord wants us to pass on about Him to our people, so the best time to do it is before we have a terminal diagnosis. So one of the places I am hoping to get in to do a workshop is our church has a Mothers with Young Children group that meets once a month, so I'd love to do a workshop and have some practice materials that we could go through and do some similar projects to the ones that we talked about today. Also, we have a very active senior group, so I have that as well. And then within that we have some senior homes. So there are some senior homes in this area where I volunteer with hospice, but they have a wide range. 25:56 So they have people senior homes in this area where I volunteer with hospice, but they have a wide range. So they have people who have just moved in there. They have their own apartment, they have their own kitchen, but they can still go to the dining room. Then they have a little more assisted and then they have a chair. So, if I can, we've I used to coach communications for young adults. 26:13 We used to go serve in those places too. So I already have those kinds of connections and they generally like to have engaging opportunities for people to do different things, whether it's a craft, whether it's listening to music or something like what I offer. So those are kind of the places where I know to start and then, as I do that, then I'm meeting more people that are like well, you should just come and talk to my mom's group or you should come talk to my grandparents. You know, have this. They go to lunch at the senior center every week and you should go see if you can get in there. So there are these little inroads that we get. 26:48 - Speaker 1 So what you've done is you've made legacy projects a way to share the gospel. Sure, you're going to come across people who don't know the gospel message, or maybe they know it, but they need it to be refreshed and they need to be present in their life. And this is a wonderful way to do it. And I'm just thinking of worst case scenario someone only has a little bit of time left and they really wish they had done something to leave a legacy behind. I just want to reiterate it's never too late. We don't have to be disappointed because we waited too long to do a legacy. Sharing your story and having it recorded in some way, whether that be, you know, on a, you know, a voice, you know, memo, you know, recorded through a camera lens any of these things, you know, what's so powerful about everybody's life is that we can see the presence of God in it, and so, you know, this is such a gift to offer to people in your community and I'm excited to see it continue to grow. And I hope that you know you'll, you'll have a, you'll have a place for even, you know, to do workshops for doulas, you know, maybe they want to know a little bit more, like how do I go into my community and do this? You know becoming, you know you have a real leadership. You've got a wonderful way with crafts. You know that is not my, my strong point. My creativity comes in other ways, like yeah, but no, you, you have. You do, I think, your homeschooling I can. I can see very much how that has has prepared you to do amazing projects Well, prepared you to do amazing projects Well. 28:40 So it's 1.30. I'm going to invite everybody to turn their camera and microphone on. If you would like, if you're attending today, live and you can ask questions of Jill. You can share your own experiences. The sky's the limit. Experiences, uh, you're the. The sky's the limit. I'm really glad to see a great, a great group today. 29:02 - Speaker 5 Thank you, joe, thank you, did I just share uh, one legacy project that I heard about. Absolutely it was. It was um, this is a craft, just, but it really um piqued my interest in these kinds of things, um, and also my own, my, my mom passed away and she had these layered leather skirts that my sister had hung on to and I had no idea. My mom passed away about 30 years ago. She's hung on to these leather skirts all this time, wanted to do something with them, finally found somebody that does that kind of thing and she turned, uh, those two skirts into um like handbags for all of my four sisters and the the um, the um other, like there was enough material to do it for for her four daughters and for their daughters and my um, her grandson's wives. Like beautiful leather. Mine's only like about this big too bad, I didn't bring it um, but it's beautiful, it's beautiful, and so that was one um. 30:11 That was the first time that I saw it um, but it was funny the timing, because I just got on my feed. Somebody had lost their father prior to the wedding and so somebody did this project for her. Her shoes were decorated with one of his shirts and the message was that he was here to walk her down the aisle. And I was just bawling and reading through all these very creative ideas and have since, you know, looked up several and just seen how you could just take a simple item like a shirt and turn it into a pillow, or turning you know a wedding gown into you know something. Just yeah, that's all just personal items that you know serve a practical purpose and kind of remain with them, with the family. 31:07 - Speaker 4 That is beautiful. 31:08 - Speaker 2 Thank you. Yeah, I think those remembrance projects are really important to not just the legacy projects, where the person has to input, but where the family has um there's a difference there. 31:22 - Speaker 5 I'm hearing it. I didn't think of that Okay. 31:24 - Speaker 2 Like, I have a teddy bear made from my dad's shirts, and so do my nephews, so do my half sister, my stepsister, and then we took all the rest of his shirts and we had a quilt made for my stepmother. So she has that. It's kind of a lap quilt, and so I think those remembrance projects are super important too. That's how we remember them, or how we bring that remembrance. I love legacy too, because the person gets to weigh in on what kind of legacy I'm going to leave. I think both those things. That's the perfect picture. 31:56 - Speaker 5 Thank you for clarifying the difference there. Yeah, remembrance project yeah, that's very good. 32:01 - Speaker 1 I didn't even think of that, and so, when I was talking about the upcycling which is basically, you know, like the making the teddy bear, you know, out of the shirts, that's a better phrase. A better phrase. Yes, I know Lisa wanted to. She had her hand up, yeah. 32:20 - Speaker 7 I just wanted to share something that I got and it was just one of those things that I saw it on Facebook or something and I thought, oh, that's so cool. Anyway, when Jill was talking about doing the Bibles for her grandchildren, this is what I have. I don't know if you can read it, but it says letters to my granddaughter as I watch you grow, and then it has her name and it says a little book of love and adventure, but it's leather bound and it's got the little strap thing. 32:58 - Speaker 6 So you can hold it closed. And it didn't? 33:01 - Speaker 7 it really didn't cost that much, and so I always write her a letter on. I wrote her a letter when she was born and I write a letter on each birthday she just turned five. Write a letter on each birthday she just turned five, and so this is something that I will, and I'll probably start writing more than just on the birthdays, but that's something that I'm already working on for her. Once she's grown and I'm gone. So I just thought that was beautiful. 33:39 - Speaker 2 I love it. Yeah, Intentional now, so that somebody was asking about StoryWorth and things like that. I would just say, if you are recommending that to people, make sure that people have the login information. We got that for my mom and when my mom's capacity went, both that and her ancestry and she did a ton of stuff on ancestry are lost to us because we don't have login information. So just that's. I think those things are great and when my mom started it she was very much in her right mind. Then she just didn't think to pass along her you know login. Oh, someday when I'm gone. You know, we were just going to put it together in the book but things happened so quickly with her, so that was that's one thing I'd recommend. Make sure you you get that information. That's good, good to know. Very bummed. I love the stories my mom was telling in there I mean, there are some amazing projects out there. 34:35 - Speaker 1 I, I've, I've, I've done some research and you know you could spend thousands creating a book with pictures and stories, but you know that is right for some people. But you can. It doesn't have to cost a thousand dollars to be amazingly meaningful. So just keep keep that in mind. You know, and I said it a little earlier but I just want to reiterate, you know, when we embark on a legacy project, it makes us contemplate that we're going to die and that is a sort of a missing art to the way that we live now. And you know, from the standpoint of hope and resurrection, you know we could actually, you know, not just contemplate we're going to die, we're going to contemplate, you know, what's beyond that and that you know, the bodies that we live in now will matter for the future, even though they are going to die. And you know, in the grave they will, you know, turn to dust. You know cremation, you know whatever our you know method of disposition is, but, but the bodies will live again as new bodies, immortal bodies. But all of that, you know, can be, can be wrapped up into our mindset as we, you know, do our legacy project. Would it change the legacy we leave behind? I think it does. I think hope, which is something that our world, you know, struggles with, you know hope is, you know, something that brings healing. Is, you know, something that brings healing? You know so. So doing legacy projects with hope in mind can restore relationships today. So so there's so much that we can. We can find that's full of healing and life inside of legacy projects. And then, on the flip side, the remembrance projects can bring a lot of healing to. 36:35 You know, remember, like I remember, when my dad died, it became a little bit like a burden for my mom. My dad was like a fine dresser, like that was his thing, and and he had all these wonderful shirts and blazers and, you know, do you just give them away, like really people? You know, you may not have a place to give them and thankfully we gave them to one of his very good friends who was just over the moon, and occasionally I see him dressed in one of them, which I love, but you know, just saying, oh, I'm going to, you know, go in this closet, take all these and take them to the Salvation Army. You know, let's think of something. Think of something you know better for for some of them, such as putting it into a teddy bear like that, is just wonderful and I imagine it. It just keeps your you know the person close and provides a lot of healing. Wow, this is a fun conversation, uh, terry. 37:34 - Speaker 4 A couple of things came to mind when you were talking about you don't have to spend a lot of money. I know in our experience about writing our own story. You talked about using Canva and I've been using that for other things. So I mean that would be a great free, because you can sign up for free way to you know, put pictures and words together, download it, save it, have it printed, whatever for a story, for a life story too. And then the other thing I thought of is a friend of mine. 38:05 When her sister passed, she was really into jewelry. That was her thing. So everybody in the family got to go through, I mean, you know costume jewelry stuff and pick out what they wanted. And she had a lot left. So at her memorial they had. It was around Christmas time, so they had a lot left. So at her memorial they had. It was around christmas time, so they had a christmas tree and then they had little baggies with ribbons with different jewelry items in it and everybody that came, anybody, could take some of her jewelry if they want I love that yeah that's really cool how about cultural? 38:37 - Speaker 1 you know, being um, like our culture may define, you know, a legacy, one legacy project to the next. I don't know, I'm I'm just thinking of beautiful rosa, catholic hispanic. Do you have any? Have any ideas drumming up or anything that you've seen as legacy projects, rosa, that might be of interest? 39:05 - Speaker 6 Um, no, to be honest, um, at least where, how I grew up, and um, and how I see it in my culture, we don't talk about death at all. We don't prepare. You know, culture, we don't talk about death at all, we don't prepare. You know, um, usually, like for me, everything that I'm learning here, or like in health care as a cna, and then now in in school for nursing, like it's a whole different system, like the american system, is so, so different. You know, we are mexicans, we're, we're, we're very um, like we will take care of our elderly until the moment they die, like the whole family will like, literally, like you'll, you'll take care of them for like three months and then I'll take care of them for another three months and then we just rotate them, you know, like, until they pass. 39:54 You know, that's the way that I grew up seeing things, that's the way that it's, that it's been. Like there's no taking them to nursing homes. There's no, none of that, you know. So all this, everything for me is just so like, completely new. You know, I mean you, we don't. You know they're dying, but you don't talk about it. You just, you know it's, it's, it's just crazy, and it's been mind-blowing everything. So yeah, that's all I have to say. It's very, very, very different in my culture. 40:29 - Speaker 1 Yes, yeah, Thank you. Any other thoughts? Questions might be coming up for you. 40:40 - Speaker 2 I just want to say that I think most cultures, most people's idea of legacy is to leave something that's going to make it better for the next generation than it even was for themselves, whether it's good or not. And the unfortunate thing is sometimes people don't think they have that to pass on. And it is a good reminder of the gospel to pass on and it is a good reminder of the gospel. It is a good way to come in and not just bring hope for their eventual resurrection and the hope of eternal life with Christ, but that your life is still valuable now, you're still chosen. Now you still make a difference. Now you may think you're too late or you missed the opportunities, or you should have done more shoulda, coulda, woulda just to be able to remind them that their identity in Christ, who they are in that situation, and to talk and to tell stories and to tell even regrets, to be able to convey that to family members. 41:35 There are those cases where that is the main thing everybody's going to remember, but in most cases people remember good things too, and sometimes that is the healing too Laurel you were talking about healing that comes to that person who, because we know, we know that people have a more peaceful death when they feel like they have accomplished what they were called to. 41:56 And if you feel like part of that unfinished business is I should have been more faithful with the legacy I was supposed to be leaving all along to think that you can't now leave a legacy, and that's part of it. Don't wait. Don't do that because you shouldn't have regrets on your deathbed. It should be a time for us just all to come together and love one another well, but to encourage them that you know God's mercies are new every morning. That includes when we're on our deathbed. It's never, ever, too late. Nothing is impossible with God, and that's part of what we do as doulas right is to help facilitate reconciliations and reminders and the coming back together and the healing that happens, so that people do have a peaceful passing and have a correct view of the life they're leaving behind and the life they're going to live. 42:55 - Speaker 6 Yeah, can I say something Powerful, one of the things that right now that, as I was saying that about my culture and my family and my life, I've mentioned several times that at the very beginning, when I started having my death crisis, you know, and always talking about it, I still always talk about it. I actually sent them a song yesterday like, hey, this is the song that I want If I die before y'all, like you guys put this song, you know, whenever, whenever I pass, um, but I'm always like bringing it up and at first it was just like, oh, you're good, there you go Starting with it again. You know the topic, like it makes people uncomfortable, whatever, and I feel like me getting called for all this. You know what I mean it's. It's opening my, my heart and my family's heart to the idea of it and to actually talk, talk about it, you know. Or now they kind of just like, okay, they'll just listen. You know they, you know they don't feel uncomfortable about it anymore. 44:02 But, yeah, now I feel like God. That's why God one of the reasons was like he installed it really hardcore in my heart and now it's kind of like just my family is starting to open up to the idea of it, to the thought of it. Hey, let's talk about it. You know, like hey dad, like how do you want things done? You know, like that's what I, that's what I tell him, like my, when I talk to my dad and stuff. So so, yeah, I just wanted to share that too. 44:32 - Speaker 1 Oh, thank you, Rosa. You know what just came to mind. I want to say you know, here we are. We just had Palm Sunday, we started Holy Week. This Friday is Good Friday and you're talking about you know. Is it ever too late to start a legacy project? And I'm thinking of the thief on the cross who was not a believer until he was beside Jesus Dying, until he was beside Jesus Dying and he said remember me when you come into your kingdom and Jesus said you will be with me in paradise today. 45:06 So that legacy he has left for over 2,000 years that we share with others, that there is never a moment that we are not able to. You know, come to Christ, make a difference for somebody else, all of these things even you know to, to that last breath. And you know, something I find very encouraging is that you know, as a doula you got to be careful in that someone who appears to be sleeping, maybe in the unconscious state as they're heading towards death, they can hear everything, and so you can still minister in that moment, and science says there may even be a few seconds after death Hearing is still working. And so we just Jill said it earlier, God's mercy. So wrapping up the idea of Legacy Project inside of God's mercy as well. We are never overburdened, because God provides a way for all of these things. 46:23 - Speaker 6 Yeah, I told Miles I didn't talk to him about the airport, right, but I told him as a Catholic, right, I asked him I'm like they have a little chapel at Enora and I asked him if he could have holy water there at all times, just because there is time that maybe that person didn't live a life, a Christian life, you know, and maybe at the end, at the very end, I could, we could, um, if there's no priest around, if there's nothing around, you know what I mean. If nobody could get on time, like I would would. I would be more than happy to be able, if that person Is willing to, you know, accept Jesus Christ, to baptize them in the name of the Father, son and Holy Spirit, and that, whenever I think about that, it's just like, oh my god, he's bringing souls to Christ. It's just, it's just, it's just beautiful, you know. And, yeah, I just wanted to share that. I don't know. 47:19 - Speaker 1 It's. It is beautiful. Well, I know miles. So miles is coming next month. 47:23 Second Monday of the month, we have a special conversation. It flows like this first, you know half hour, I have a conversation with someone talking about an end of life topic, and next month it'll be be miles, and so if you join again, you'll have the opportunity to actually listen and then come in the last half hour, turn your camera on and your microphone on and and ask miles questions. And miles is going to be. It's going to be a very interesting conversation. 47:54 So, just like Jill, a call placed in his heart, he's had some hurdles to jump through, some obstacles to maneuver, but God has been faithful and he has a home for the dying. That eradicates a lot of the crises we have around end-of-life care, whether it's structurally through Medicare, whether it's not enough people in your home to care for you, whether it's not having a home. These are all part of our big American crisis and Miles is one guy, so we need a lot of miles out there to to start these, but he it's going to be a good. I know it's going to be a fantastic conversation. 48:44 - Speaker 4 Terry's what you're thinking I was thinking when you were talking um about it made me think of how we talked previously about how there is vocation in our dying also, and how a legacy project is like part of that vocation. You know, the vocation is part of legacy, how it's intertwined, beautiful absolutely beautiful. 49:07 - Speaker 1 I look forward to you know, 20 years from now, when, when these conversations, you know, have have affected like the way that we live, and I've been reading an amazing book that Michelle brought to my attention called well shoot I don't have it right in front of me, but it's by Dr Lydia Dugdale the Art of Dying. What is it, michelle? 49:31 - Speaker 5 The Lost Art of Dying. 49:32 - Speaker 1 Lost Art of Dying, and she's talking about medieval, the medieval practice around death. Ars Morandi, if I'm pronouncing it right. I'm sorry it's off the cuff, I don't have it right in front of me, but legacy projects would fall into this category of actually practicing, preparing for our death. We're having conversations, we're making plans, we're, you know, beyond that, we're considering what living today means in light of the fact that we will die. And you know one thing that's changed since the 15th century, I'll say you know, mid the 1200s, 1300s, you know, all the way up to like 1700, 1800s, before we started getting more modernized, there was no option but to talk about your death and practice for your death. Because modernization has extended our life, which is an amazing thing. It's also taken away this need for conversation and for practice, and so you know how do we get back to it and still enjoy the modernizations in medicine that we have? I think we can do it. We love penicillin and other vaccines, and well, I don't know if I should get into vaccines. 51:01 It's very complicated today, but antibiotics, and I'm going to stick with. You know other other, you know really wonderful medical interventions. My father was a physician and he wrote on this spinal tap he did what saved a young boy's life. Right, we want these medical interventions but we don't want to the cost where we lose the fact that there are some cures with medical interventions and God has provided for those through intellect and through science. There's also a point where we must not forget that our life here on this earth is mortal and that we actually can live better if we do keep in mind and keep a healthy mind set around the fact that we will die. And I know Joyce has been with us today and quiet, and she's an amazing woman who is very happy to have a group of people who say I know I'm going to die and I want to talk about it. 52:17 - Speaker 3 And I want to talk about it. I wonder most of you are young, so you may not want to talk about the end of life like I do, and I'm wondering are all the people on the screen studying to be doulas, or why are they part of this group? Could you hear me? 52:47 - Speaker 6 Yes, oh, okay, well, for me, in my personal experience, I didn't even know what a death doula was or anything like that. I just started to realize I was going to die. I started hearing a voice letting me know you're going to die, you are going to die. Accept it, because it's going to happen, you know. So I started looking first. First I started to look within myself and started accepting it, and I still do. 53:26 Every day of my life I try to ask the Lord how could I die to myself today? How can I prepare for death today? You know, and um, but it was been a a journey of probably like about four or five years that I at first I started, I would panic, I'd be like, oh, my goodness, I'm going to die. What's going to happen to me? You know, even though I would go to church and I know about Jesus Christ resurrection and he loves me and he saves me, it was still hard for me to accept the fact that I was dying. You know it was happening. So, um, that's that's how it started, that's how it started with me. And then I feel like the Lord started guiding me, and now I'm here, but it's not like I was searching, like, what can I do? You know? No, the, the Lord himself started to to take care of me and and and guide me to where I am now. Um, that's just like in my experience right now. That's just the way that I live, like um um Laurel was saying you know, accepting, accepting the fact that death is going to happen, makes you better. 54:41 That's what I've learned, learning that every day, okay, I'm dying, I'm going to die. Die to myself, to my needs, to my wants, to my desires. Kill those you know, so I could live in you. That helps me become a better Christian. That helps me become a better human being in general. So that's just it. Thank you for sharing. You're welcome. 55:10 - Speaker 1 I see Jill and Terry with their hands up. 55:15 - Speaker 2 I just want to say, joyce, I got certified through Laurel's program in December, so I am a doula. But I kind of wanted to go back to what Rosa was saying the first time, in which she kind of expanded on there is and what you were saying too, Laurel. I feel like the more society moves away from Christianity and the gospel, the more people put their hope in technology, which has also come a long way. And so because people put their hope in technology, which has also come a long way, and so because people have their hope in technology instead of in Jesus or maybe there's a mix of that people don't want to talk about death because their hope is not in resurrection. Their hope is in not dying in the first place, even though we all know we're going to die. 56:00 And I think I've told this story before. One of my daughters is a harpist and I always told her when I am on my deathbed I want you to come and play the harp for me, because I just want to be ushered into God's presence. I love it. I am so thrilled that she's a harpist and she's like that's terrible, mom. That's just morbid. I just can't do that. 56:19 And I'm like fine, but when my parents passed away, I was having conversations with my grandchildren who were like I think eight or nine, and then you know, three years behind that and three years behind that, and I was talking about the music that I wanted at my funeral and why I chose those things, and my grandkids were like yeah, that's really great, that's really great. And I told them well, I wanted your aunt to play harp for me and she said she wouldn't do that and they're like that's so mean. But here I was engaging in a death, my death conversation with my grandchildren who are totally open to it because they don't know yet all the technology. They haven't had to put their any kind of faith in technology, medical technology. Their only faith is in Jesus. It hasn't been challenged yet. 57:07 So I think when we start, when they're young, and we have those conversations and we go back to the way it used to be, where we all know we're going to die short of Jesus coming back, let's talk about it. You know we can't avoid it, so might as well start glorifying God in it and talking about what that means for all of us, and then it becomes normalized and easier, and then I love what you said, rosa, about applying death to ourselves. Like how can I die to myself? Today Makes me a better personification of Jesus Christ. 57:42 - Speaker 1 And I say there's always the experience of, you know, our flesh doesn't want to die to itself. So there's the experience of God moving that along for us, right, and for us as human beings, death is one of those, you know, I mean Luther said it back, you know, in the 16th century, like what man doesn't shudder when he thinks of death. And you know so we don't have to be brave. I'm not scared, like that's okay to be scared, it is the unknown. You know we haven't died before. 58:25 You know, I remember when I was having my first child, I had a lovely OBGYN, a male physician, and I thought he was telling me how to, you know, go through labor. 58:37 And I thought you don't know, but you know what. He had done this for a long time and he knew a lot about it, right, so we don't have to have died to be able to go in and be really, really a servant to someone who is in that, facing that fear. God does prepare us for that and I really believe that. You know the end of life process is something that can reveal more and more to us what it's like to be humbled, and you know that's the human problem is, we don't want to be humbled. It's painful. It's painful to be humbled, but to be in that place and have people with you who are nonjudgmental through that humbling process and who are willing to walk every step along the way is really a gift. Yeah, terry, and then we'll wrap up because it really a gift. Yeah, terry, and then we'll wrap up because it's a little after two, I'll be quick. 59:44 - Speaker 4 I wanted to just chime in with what Jill said. About what, rosa, when you said about dying to yourself every day, that spoke to me a lot too. So thank you. And then, when Jill was talking, when you were talking about your grandchildren, I thought I think that's half, more than half. 59:58 The battle these days is to make it death more of a natural process, not shield our kids and our grandkids from it. You know, when my mom passed and my dad, both I had grandkids that were between three and five somewhere around there, maybe even a little younger, with my mom and my daughter brought them both to see each of my parents in their last hours, and it wasn't scary to them, it just, you know. They just seemed to understand it better that this is a part of what's happening. And you know we were able to say you know, grandma and grandpa are going to go to heaven. You know that's why we're sad, but yet we still have the hope, you know. 01:00:42 But the other quick thing is when I do my workshops for these churches that I've been doing sometimes. I'll start with the question well, if I asked you today, how many of you would say that you're dying? And so far not many people have raised their hands. But then I go on to explain. Well, we all are dying, really from the moment that we're born, and it is just this process of life and if we think of it more like that, then maybe it'll eventually be easier to discuss when it's closer to our actual death. 01:01:12 - Speaker 1 Great, that's a great question and one, yes, we don't want to contemplate no-transcript.